Submitted by BobF on Fri, 25/06/2010 - 15:07
Posted in
Hi Sirion Guys etc.
I have a question for you and am looking for advice.
If you look in Images Cars. And look for my picture "Complete Rustproofing done"
You will see the spring on the left of the picture.
On seeing this picture YRV Tony did suggest it looked a bit flimsy but I replied it had been ok. (Cos it had) 
But yep - I am now having a problem with the rear springs just like I did on the Sirion 4 Track I had. 
(It's bottoming out when fully loaded in the back)So Tony was correct.
I solved the 4 Track problem by tracking down the Original company who made the upgraded Rally 2 and 4 Springs (With the help of YRV Tony as well)and had some made that were stronger for the 4 Track and it worked a treat.
So the question is -
What percentage stronger should I have new Springs made?
I had the 4 Track springs made 30% stronger but that was at the normal ride height.
The Rally 4 is dropped 22mm. So i was thinking 40% stronger 
What do you lot think?
Looking forward to your expert suggestions.
Cheers, BobF.
Rally 4 rear spring rate
Bob,
If you get stiffer springs with the same length as the originals your ride height will be increased.
If you get stiffer springs which are shorter, to try to maintain the same ride height you will have less suspension movement before the snubbers bottom, unless you shorten the snubbers - which most people don't think to do.
Sorry to be unhelpful, but correct spring design is a complicated professional job requiring a lot of questions to be answered. All I can tell you is that the progressive Daihatsu NL rear springs I have fitted are b stiff and raise the ride height by 15mm....and the snubbers never bottom!
Talk to Trevor Levy's spring maker. At least he has the figures given to him by Trevor, like static spring load for your car, loaded spring length etc. and he will give you better advice than any of us can give you, if you tell him what loads you want to carry.
YRV Tony
Already talked to them Tony.
They have the specs already from when they did the Rally Springs for Camspeed UK.
They just said that had everything they needed spec wise - Just how much stronger did I want them ?
So I thought I would ask you lot.
Come on chaps. Only one reply.
Cheers, Bob F.
2003 Sirion Rally 4. And I love it.
Don't like the new shape Sirion much.Sorry.
The wrong trousers...sorry, the wrong question.
They asked you the wrong question Bob. I'll bet if you asked for 40% stiffer they would give you a same-length spring but 40% stiffer, raising your static ride height.
In the simplest terms, what they should have asked you is.....
What's the max added load you will put in the back of the car?
and
Do you want the same static ride height without the added load?
With these answers they should be able to redesign the springs.
YRV Tony
Springs Ordered !
All things talked about.
Springs Ordered !!
We will see.
Bob.
2003 Sirion Rally 4. And I love it.
Don't like the new shape Sirion much.Sorry.
Final spec
What was the final spec that you settled on Bob?
YRV Tony
Spec.
Same as Camspeed wanted.
So static length to remain the same.
But this would be adjusted to take into account a 40% stronger spring.
I haven'g got the actual spec here I will ask them for it for my new springs.
Anyway - What you doing up at this time in the morning ??
I thought it was only me that was mad on here ??
Cheers, Bob F.
2003 Sirion Rally 4. And I love it.
Don't like the new shape Sirion much.Sorry.
Extra-terrestrial
Bob, I don't need and am not able to sleep so am active 24/7 as you say. I'm an extra-terrestrial doing research on the primitive earth culture.
So far the only interesting things I've found are Daihatsu YRVs and Adolf Hitler. Thus I am a member of DDC and circulate vid clips of Der Furer singing, which I hope you appreciate!
YRV Tony
?????????
Am I the only one who thinks that post is rather disturbing...??
hehehe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just call me G...
2004 Yellow YRV Turbo
Nah not really....
Met Tony at the last meet and I could beleive he could be an E.T in disguise, especially with the amount of questions he was asking me...
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'53' Plate Yellow YRV Turbo/ '53' Plate Black Subaru Impreza WRX STi PPP
130BHP/305BHP
Disturbing !!
If you knew him you would know this is perfectly normal - for him
Bob.
The Hitler singing clip is a cracker.
2003 Sirion Rally 4. And I love it.
Don't like the new shape Sirion much.Sorry.
Decoding
I'm just amused by corny and tenuous associations.
Thread - springs
Hitler > "The Producer" > "Springtime with Hitler" = Hitler sendup
Hitler singing....rare footage of Hitler singing, a vid clip circulating amongst some of us = Hitler sendup
The only straightforward bit is the extra-terrestrial...would I fib?
YRV Tony
Back to the Bloody Springs !!
Just been contacted by Coil Springs.
They want me to measure the spring length on my car when level and then up off the ground to get them bang on.
Apparently my springs will be approx 120ft lbs.
It would appear the original springs for the Rally 4 were just shortened by 22mm but not strengthened at all.
Bob.
2003 Sirion Rally 4. And I love it.
Don't like the new shape Sirion much.Sorry.
Yes, back to the bloody springs!!
Bob, that explains the weakness of your old springs. Same spring rating but shorter....so there's less snubber clearance and thus they bottom sooner at the same load - just what you've found.
From what you say the new spring rating will be 120lbf/inch. That is, you load the spring with 120lb and it will compress by 1 inch, 240lb, 2 inches and so on.
I estimate the static load on each of your rear springs is about 360lb, so your spring will be compressed by 3 inches. Add a 180lb (heavy) person over the spring and it will compress a further 1.5 inches. What's left before the snubbers bottom is used up in dealing with shock loads caused by bumps in the road. All sounds about right. Fingers crossed!
PS. If anybody wants to enjoy the Hitler singing vid, private message me your email address, but if you want to see "Springtime with Hitler", get Gene Wilder's "The Producer" from your video shop - it's absolutely hilarious (and of course nothing to do with springs, although it has a very good rating!).
YRV Tony
No Snubbers !!
Hi Tony.
Or should I say ET
There are no snubbers on the Sirion.
Just the rubber mountings.
BobF.
2003 Sirion Rally 4. And I love it.
Don't like the new shape Sirion much.Sorry.
Schnubbers schmubbers
Bob, if you haven't any snubbers the spring closing up fully is your bottoming, unless the damper closes up first, which doesn't bear thinking about, but is possible with shortened springs.
You can check closed damper length when you are rolling about fitting the rear springs.
YRV Tony
I see what you Mean !!
I see this Tony.
It will be a while before I get the new Springs (About two weeks)
I will take some photos etc.
The back Tyres rub as well when it bottoms out.
Anyway - It cured the 4Trak, so I will keep my fingers crossed.
BobF.
2003 Sirion Rally 4. And I love it.
Don't like the new shape Sirion much.Sorry.
Springs Arrived !!
Now I need the time to put them on.
Will take photos.
Bob.
2003 Sirion Rally 4. And I love it.
Don't like the new shape Sirion much.Sorry.
I see what you Mean !!
I see this Tony.
It will be a while before I get the new Springs (About two weeks)
I will take some photos etc.
The back Tyres rub as well when it bottoms out.
Anyway - It cured the 4Trak, so I will keep my fingers crossed.
BobF.
2003 Sirion Rally 4. And I love it.
Don't like the new shape Sirion much.Sorry.