Forum:
One for those of you more into the off road side of things.
How do people recommend a rear recovery point is fitted to a '94 TDS fourtrak , have thought about fitting one of these Recovery point to be used with rated shackles etc. Looking ideally for something fairly discreet and with little specialised/skilled work envolved. Wanting to keep the current towball as a fair bit of towing is done with the vehicle, and also as standard as possible.
Cheers
Rear Recovery Point
Why fit a recovery point when you have a towball?
Rear Recovery Point
Hi madfish
This item just seems to be a shackle/plate attached to the tow ball mounting. I use a rated nylon recovery rope, complete with eyes/loops and fitted with two large rated shackles, one of which can be droped over the existing tow ball. Have seen a rear tow bar fitted with recovery points/shackels fitted to both ends of the tow bar, adjacent to the attachment of chassis rail areas, this also included the existing tow ball. I store my recovery rope in a plastic box as what you can purchase from a DiY store, along with jump leads and WD40 for the ladies in distress.
Edward (ews) '92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX
Change the towbar
Use the same towbar as me, its a clevis pin one, tow ball on the top, with a pin that goes through a clevis aswell for larger hooks etc, its very handy.
Full of ideas but no time to do them!!
www.bloodredoffroad.com
www.milneroffroad.com
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youtube: Redfourtrack
as below...
a jaw/ball/pin tow hitch will do you well if you plan on keeping your tow hitch as well.
Long link, but these are spot on:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dixon-Bate-Jaw-pin-and-tow-ball-coupling-trailer-bar_W0QQitemZ160379020370QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Trailers_Transporters_Parts?hash=item255755a452
just make sure no sod nicks the pin.
what type of recovery are you
what type of recovery are you going to use it for,if its just to be pulled out gently then a towbar will be fine but it its for snatch recovery then do not use the towbar as they are not desinged for that type of force and can/will brake and you dont want that much waight flying back at the recovery truck
Trying to keep away from a few things
Trying to keep away from just hooking it over the towball, with various places/groups/clubs that dont "allow" it as such. And also having it seperate to the existing towball (got spare set of mounting holes under the existing towball on most of our trucks) so if needed it is possible to change which truck they are on (got one truck with clevis type hitch with the towball, but the other 3 are just ball's).
Also trying to keep away from snatch/kinetic recovery if possible, but want to have the capability for it if necessary.
Not going to be use off road too much, more for occasionally recovering others hopefully.
depends on where its mounted
depends on where its mounted you could use some 10mm plate on both sides with holes in to bolt on and to put the shackles on and use a bridle to put the stress across both points,you would be best bolting them to the chassis but then you would need to fit tubes in the chassis to stop it crushing.
here are some things you could use
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-DEFENDER-REAR-RECOVERY-POINT_W0QQitemZ180477154336QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2a0546d420
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Recovery-swivel-eyes-winch-bumper-4x4-HEAVY-DUTY_W0QQitemZ200447325937QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Trailers_Transporters_Parts?hash=item2eab9776f1
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-Recovery-Jate-Ring_W0QQitemZ250403612891QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3a4d37e8db
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LANDROVER-REAR-RECOVERY-SWIVEL-HOOK-4X4-new-product_W0QQitemZ200447639392QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2eab9c3f60
a lote of places like the jate rings but they are only held on with 1 m10 bolt
If its for a kinetic
If its for a kinetic revcovery fit a specialised mounting point on each chassis rail as these generate loads in excess of 10 tonnes. Never use a tow bar for kinetic of snatch recoveries as these cannot stand the shock loads.
Never use rated shackles for kinetic recoveries either, only last year i saw one go through the front of a Shogun. This penetrated the grille, intercooler, A/T cooler, radiator, water pump, and embeded itself in No 1 cylinder and engine block.
Make one by using a sandwich plate, fit the outer at the rear of the chassis, drill and fit a thick plate inside the chassis. Use 10mm or thicker and inly pull in straight lines, never sideways as it will pull the chassis out of line.
you mean never use unrated
you mean never use unrated shackles for snatch recoverys.a 4.75t rated shackle will have a min break of about 31t most of the time when something breaks its what the shackle is attached to plus most kinetic ropes are rated at 2t working load with a min 11.5t breaking load,you also need to be sure that the truck that is pulling you out has good recovery points aswell
Kinetic will only be a last
Kinetic will only be a last resort, a straight pull (not snatch) will be the first and preffered option.
Have looked at recovery options, and have recently got my self a 14T rated tow strap and rated shackles, so havent actually got my own equipment for kinetic, and wasnt intending on getting it too soon.
If you are not using kinetic
If you are not using kinetic then rated shackles are fine with a standard recovery rope.
No i mean exactly what i
No i mean exactly what i posted, rated shackles are rated only for pulling, not the shock loadings which kinetic recoveries incur. It is a common misconception which has cost lives and caused many injuries, particularly in the States.
As a professional engineer it horrifies me when i see this fundamental error, the people manufacturing such items should put the safety warnings in their literature.
There appears to be much
There appears to be much confusion and misinformation about the supposed working loads of kinetic ropes. THEY DO NOT HAVE A WORKING LOAD.
They have a minimum breaking load, this is slightly misinforming as it has to be held at this mimimum breaking load for 30 seconds for the purposes of testing. This is with an erosion factor of 10% to allow for damage, the reality is that no kinetic rope will remain fully stretched for more than a fraction of a second before it begins to contract.
Shackles rated at 4.75 tonnes do not have a minimum breaking point of 31 tonnes, they have to have a factor of safety if 1.7:1 as they are only rated for lifting. They have no rating for shock loadings, it is not the weight that is the problen, it is the sudden load curve or shock loading which causes them to break. In reality the working load would be guaranteed to be 4.75 X 1.7 = 8 tonnes, so nowhere near the rating of a kinetic rope without the shock loading taken into consideration.
http://www.paddockspares.com/
http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/OFF_ROAD/Ropes_and_Recovery/Kinetic_Tow_Rope_-_8_metre_x_24mm_(2_ton_Working_Load_Limit,_12_ton_Minimum_Breaking_Load)_(WEB_EXCLUSIVE_SPECIAL_OFFER).html
so is that False advertising???
http://www.wwewirerope.com/ha
http://www.wwewirerope.com/hardware/galvanized2.html
most places that sell recovery stuff will give you a working load and a breaking load.
the shackle link says
some more links for you to
some more links for you to look though
http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/reading/snatch.htm
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/25404850/Snatch-Straps-and-Kinetic-Recovery
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=617
http://landyspares.co.za/files/snatch_straps.htm THIS ONE IS A GOOD READ
I do not need the links as i
I do not need the links as i can rely upon my own considerable engineering qualifications. As i have previously stated there are considerable sources of misinformation, mainly from unqualified people who have no knowledge of what they are talking about. many are often journalists looking for a sensationalist story, others are mainly retailers, manufacturers, and others with a vested interest in selling equipment.
It is this misinformation which creates the problems, people think it is correct by using "common perception". This is where it sounds logical so it must be right, but as with many things, it is wrong.
Considering the considerable misinformation and general rubbish printed, i am currently composing an article with "THE FACTS". People can then read and make up their own minds, if they accept what i say then fine, we have all learned something new. if they dispute it and end up injured, then tough, they were warned and chose to ignore it.
so are paddocks False
so are paddocks False advertising or not
Withoutg getting onto the
Withoutg getting onto the site and looking i cannot say. There are two trains of thought, either you are looking at a ordinary recovery rope which is not a kinetic rope, or it is one of the few kinetic ropes which can also be used for towing. These are very few and far betwen though.
click on the link an it goes
click on the link an it goes to the kinetic rope,will take less then 1 min
A hook bolted and welded to
A hook bolted and welded to each chassis leg. Loop a rope or strop (not chain or steel cable) between them running it through the recovery rope eye. Make sure the person your recovering has VERY well attached recovery point. Never use shackles or metal eyelets on ends of ropes. If something gives under full load (which will be considerable) even a rope with no metal attached could do some serous damage. Read other post about damage done by flying shackle. Imagine that going through the windscrean in stead of the grill...
I have seen a the whole front chassis be ripped out from under a stuch Landrover by an especially exuberant snatch. I have also seen a recovery point take the cross member it was attached to streight throught the back window of the trials car doing the snatching and out through the frond screan. It decapitated the pasenger seat on the way through, and took a 2 inch gouge out of the back of the drivers seat. Somehow it missed the driver, and there was no passenger in it. Had there been a passenger they would had been ripped in two. Or if the tajectory of the tow point had been a degree of two to the right, the driver would have died. These sort of eventes are rare, but bare it it mind.
YOU CAN NEVER MAKE A RECOVERY POINT TOO STRONGE!!!
If you ever have to connect two ropes together, do not use a shakle, for the reasons above. Put the loop of one rope through the loop of the the second. Then put a peice of wood through the loop of the first rope so it can't go back through the loop in the second rope. This wood is the weekest link, if something breakes it will be this, the two halves will fly off but not with as much force as a recoiling kinetic rope. And sticks are eisier to replace than chassis, or drivers.
Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.
KERR Recovery
Hi.
This method of recovery was evolved by the armed forces for use with armoured vehicles, allowing a lighter vehicle to recover a heavier one,due to Kinetic Energy. Thus any occupants were protected from flying debris. was never invisaged for use with light 4x4's unless in a critical situation, under fire !!.
Good imformative post by Nev K. There is/was a clip on uTube of a Land Rover hitch flying through the rear of the stuck Land Rover, as a result of attempting this type of recovery. Thankfully no injuries except to pride of the recovering truck, and a new rear glass for the other.
Note KERR ropes are of limited life span/uses due to stretching and recovery of material properties, this is in the very fine print !!!! and the breaking strain of shackles is rated at a static load, not a shock load.
Edward (ews) '92 Fourtrak 2.8 TDX
Nev: Silly question, but did
Nev:
Silly question, but did you see the one where the shackle went through the front of the Shogun and ended up in No 1 cylinder. If so i would like a picture as i have lost mine the last time the computer crashed.
Sorry. No.
Sorry. No.
Any veiws expresed in this thread by me are purely from my own experience, and (sometimes) falible memory. Hope my comments help, but please don't take them as gospel.